From: owner-brotherhood-digest@flwyd.dhs.org (Brotherhood Digest) To: brotherhood-digest@flwyd.dhs.org Subject: Brotherhood Digest V1 #87 Reply-To: brotherhood Sender: owner-brotherhood-digest@flwyd.dhs.org Errors-To: owner-brotherhood-digest@flwyd.dhs.org Precedence: bulk Brotherhood Digest Friday, February 4 2000 Volume 01 : Number 087 Today's subjects from the Brotherhood: [Brotherhood] Brotherhood/Phoenix Alliance Re: [Brotherhood] Brotherhood/Phoenix Alliance RE: [Brotherhood] Brotherhood/Phoenix Alliance (long) Re: [Brotherhood] Brotherhood/Phoenix Alliance Re: [Brotherhood] Brotherhood/Phoenix Alliance Re: [RE: [Brotherhood] Brotherhood/Phoenix Alliance (long)] Re: [Re: [Brotherhood] Brotherhood/Phoenix Alliance] Re: [Brotherhood] Brotherhood/Phoenix Alliance RE: [Brotherhood] Brotherhood/Phoenix Alliance (long) Re: [Brotherhood] Brotherhood/Phoenix Alliance Re: [Re: [Brotherhood] Brotherhood/Phoenix Alliance] Re: [Brotherhood] Brotherhood/Phoenix Alliance (long) Re: [Brotherhood] Brotherhood/Phoenix Alliance (long) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 20:52:25 -0600 From: Chill Subject: [Brotherhood] Brotherhood/Phoenix Alliance I am usually silent in these issues. But this Issue I disagree with. For each must find his own path. The Phoenix have recklessly stumbled towards enlightenment with no realization of what their true goal is. The try to find the harmony between the elements before understanding each to its fullest extent. If the phoenix wish to Learn Our ways and shed their (FTH) preconcieved notions about the path, then maybe we could assist them in small way's. Our Military strength has been bolstered by those brothers who could not shed the yoke of battle, so we need no defence. The Phoenix have shown irresponsibility in the past with their use of Magic and learning ours can only make their mistakes more dangerous. They also have shown the desire to grab for power at any cost...forsakeing honor...consorting with the Shadowlands...even destroying themselves. My brothers...I must heed that we involve ourselves with the clans only in a guiding role and stay far away from strong alliances. We must keep our ways and remain apart from them as much as possible, lest we let earthly desires placate us and take us from our path. Thsoe Phoenix that wish to join our order are welcome, but an alliance is not a good thing. To our Phoenix friends. We seek not power or glory. We seek not fortune or fame. We seek only inner peace and the path to enlightenment. Your proposed alliance would lead us from our role as servants of the people and explorers of ourselves. So do understand that you are welcome to join us and share our teachings, but you must shed your worldly selves and become as we. Go in peace children, and may strife always stay 3 steps ahead of you. MitsuMan - -----Original Message----- From: Gael Lancelot [SMTP:akaijin@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2000 1:26 PM To: brotherhood@flwyd.dhs.org Subject: RE: [Brotherhood] Enlightenment vs Phoenix >Okay, let's define what the goal of such an alliance would be. Akaijin-san, >I assume you'll chime in with your intended effects. > Sure will. >In a broad sense, a successful story effect would have the >Phoenix and the Brotherhood move close together somehow. Probably >more spiritually than militarily. Perhaps the Brotherhood and >the Asako would have some sort of common goal that they wish >to realize. Perhaps the Brotherhood might intervene as >peacemaker between the Phoenix and the Mantis. > That's my idea. Of course, the Brotherhood helping peace between Phoenix and Mantis would be a great idea, and we'd be extremaely grateful. On the other hand, I am certain the Phoenix would be proud to protect the Brotherhood and help it the way the Dragon did, or any way the Brotherhood would see fit. >In a concrete sense, we might try to create a Phoenix Clan >Monk personality. It could be a current personality from >either clan who would get an experienced dual-aligned version. >A phoenix shugenja-turned-monk would be a big help to the >Brotherhood. I'm not sure that monk-turned-phoenix would be >as helpful to the Phoenix, but there are enough monk-only >cards that Phoenix might be interested in it. Someone >like Gyosho, for instance, would make a fine addition >to a Phoenix enlightenment deck. > >So, what personalities should be involved? I mentioned >Gyosho. Heichi Chokei is an obvious choice as well, >though not as beneficial for Phoenix. How about on >the Phoenix side? When is Agasha Gennai due for >retirement? :^) Hosigeru is dead and Hochiu is >destined to become the Master of Fire so the two >most likely to be used in a Monk deck are out. >Who else would be a good candidate for inclusion? > Well, I doubt Agasha Gennai would be a good idea. I mean, we still don't have a complete council, it would be a bad idea to lose our Master of Air, especially since the Agasha is newly bound to us. I'm thinking more along the side of Agasha Kusabi, who would here have a great way of being developed, or some other, maybe like the new AD shugenja. On the other hand, I have this idea about Hosigeru, with him representing the Asako as a whole, which I find it would be time to develop. The Henshin need to step into the CCG, and what better way to do it than to have them study with the Brotherhood? >Once the personalities were picked, we'd want to >announce the situation publically. Present it >as a sort of "exchange program" where a certain >monk intends to visit the Phoenix and vice-versa >in order to learn their Paths and interpretation >of the Tao. > That's a nice idea. I am going to send your mail to the Phoenix list, so they can discuss it, and i will keep you all updated about our decisions. >After that, it would be up to the players to >include those personalities in their decks if they >wanted to participate. They'd also have to place >in the top three fairly frequently, as well. I think that the Brotherhood and the Phoenix Clan are now very much en vogue, since the Enlightenment boost is something real. There has never been a better time to seal an collaboration. > >Scott Schultz >scott@ceweekly.com Shiba Akaijin Phoenix Clan Shinseist Shugenja Ambassador of the Phoenix to the Brotherhood of Shinsei ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com * You received this message because you're subscribed to brotherhood * To send a message, mail brotherhood@flwyd.dhs.org To unsubscribe, * mail brotherhood-request@flwyd.dhs.org with a body of unsubscribe * You received this message because you're subscribed to brotherhood * To send a message, mail brotherhood@flwyd.dhs.org To unsubscribe, * mail brotherhood-request@flwyd.dhs.org with a body of unsubscribe ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 22:17:26 EST From: BShadrack@aol.com Subject: Re: [Brotherhood] Brotherhood/Phoenix Alliance I must agree with MitsuMan. The Phoenix seek to gain enlightenment through knowledge of only one ring. To understand all, you must experience it all. I fear that if tourneys are won through FtH, then something very, very bad is going to happen. I see it as the corrupt version of enlightenment. The playtesters must have realized that it was amazingly powerful. And I tend to go by the old adage: If it seems to good to be true, it probably is. If something bad DOES happen to the Phoenix because of this, do we want to ruin our hard-won position as one of the top clans? I think not... In another vein, why help the Phoenix at all? Are they REALLY the ones who need our help? Right now, we should concentrate all our effort into helping the Dragon. Now that Togashi hoshi is taking control, a strong bond between our two clans can be quite fortuitous. I mean, the Dragon DID give us the Hoshi- the least we can do is help them out in the aftermath of Hitomi. I do not claim to know much- all I can argue about is how I feel. And I do not feel safe helping the Phoenix. The Unnamed Monk * Monk Avenger * Kolat * You received this message because you're subscribed to brotherhood * To send a message, mail brotherhood@flwyd.dhs.org To unsubscribe, * mail brotherhood-request@flwyd.dhs.org with a body of unsubscribe ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 22:24:07 -0600 From: Chill Subject: RE: [Brotherhood] Brotherhood/Phoenix Alliance (long) Again, understand that we need to become independent of the other clans. We cannot afford to rely on others. We must aid those in need and help the unfortunate, but alliances are not needed. We are a religious order, if the clans wish to aid us they will further their own celestial existence. That is wonderful. The Dragon are doing well on their own and do not need help. Now is a time for them and us to rebuild and grow again. The fact that we also once stood above their friends with sword and staff in hand also keeps us apart from the Dragon in spirit. It will take time for these wounds to heal. You must understand Brothers, we are no longer members of clans. We are no longer owners of land, nor any earthly possessions. We have come here to be at one with nature and ourselves. Times have forced our hand to act in the best interest of the land and the people, but our activity in such matters should come reluctantly and with great thought. We can't ally with anyone when we are nothing. We own no lands, we have only the grace of the heavens for our existence. You have troubles grasping the ways we follow. I say we strive to teach the phoenix and all clans the true path to enlightenment and that we send an advisor to all the clan leaders that would accept us. This way we can be a part of everything and yet the only thing we bring is wisdom, patience, mercy, and love. This will allow the leaders a chance to seek our wisdom before making descisions, and we can offer the ideals of Shinsei to them for thought. Embrace our ways and lose these thoughts of alliances and trade agreements. Our Forces are there to defend us and the people of Rokugan that have no defense. We must send a group to destroy the Oni that kills the peasants in the lands of the Lion to free them from the oppression of that hateful beast. This is not for the Lion clan, it is for the people that reside there. Compassion is our way, but pure evil cannot be cared away. Those of us who cannot let go of our way's of war will be Protectors. These Men will aid the people and protect our homes. That is all we need. So loose the temptation to be as you once were and embrace the Brotherhood and the ways of Shinsei. MitsuMan - -----Original Message----- From: BShadrack@aol.com [SMTP:BShadrack@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2000 9:17 PM To: brotherhood@flwyd.dhs.org Subject: Re: [Brotherhood] Brotherhood/Phoenix Alliance I must agree with MitsuMan. The Phoenix seek to gain enlightenment through knowledge of only one ring. To understand all, you must experience it all. I fear that if tourneys are won through FtH, then something very, very bad is going to happen. I see it as the corrupt version of enlightenment. The playtesters must have realized that it was amazingly powerful. And I tend to go by the old adage: If it seems to good to be true, it probably is. If something bad DOES happen to the Phoenix because of this, do we want to ruin our hard-won position as one of the top clans? I think not... In another vein, why help the Phoenix at all? Are they REALLY the ones who need our help? Right now, we should concentrate all our effort into helping the Dragon. Now that Togashi hoshi is taking control, a strong bond between our two clans can be quite fortuitous. I mean, the Dragon DID give us the Hoshi- the least we can do is help them out in the aftermath of Hitomi. I do not claim to know much- all I can argue about is how I feel. And I do not feel safe helping the Phoenix. The Unnamed Monk * Monk Avenger * Kolat * You received this message because you're subscribed to brotherhood * To send a message, mail brotherhood@flwyd.dhs.org To unsubscribe, * mail brotherhood-request@flwyd.dhs.org with a body of unsubscribe * You received this message because you're subscribed to brotherhood * To send a message, mail brotherhood@flwyd.dhs.org To unsubscribe, * mail brotherhood-request@flwyd.dhs.org with a body of unsubscribe ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 11:37:27 GMT From: "Gael Lancelot" Subject: Re: [Brotherhood] Brotherhood/Phoenix Alliance >I am usually silent in these issues. But this Issue I disagree with. For >each must find his own path. The Phoenix have recklessly stumbled towards >enlightenment with no realization of what their true goal is. The try to >find the harmony between the elements before understanding each to its >fullest extent. If the phoenix wish to Learn Our ways and shed their (FTH) >preconcieved notions about the path, then maybe we could assist them in >small way's. > >Our Military strength has been bolstered by those brothers who could not >shed the yoke of battle, so we need no defence. The Phoenix have shown >irresponsibility in the past with their use of Magic and learning ours can >only make their mistakes more dangerous. They also have shown the desire >to grab for power at any cost...forsakeing honor...consorting with the >Shadowlands...even destroying themselves. > >My brothers...I must heed that we involve ourselves with the clans only in >a guiding role and stay far away from strong alliances. We must keep our >ways and remain apart from them as much as possible, lest we let earthly >desires placate us and take us from our path. Thsoe Phoenix that wish to >join our order are welcome, but an alliance is not a good thing. > >To our Phoenix friends. We seek not power or glory. We seek not fortune >or fame. We seek only inner peace and the path to enlightenment. Your >proposed alliance would lead us from our role as servants of the people and >explorers of ourselves. So do understand that you are welcome to join us >and share our teachings, but you must shed your worldly selves and become >as we. > >Go in peace children, and may strife always stay 3 steps ahead of you. > >MitsuMan > What can I say? I understand your view, and your doubts. It is true that we have made great mistakes, and my hope was that your help would somewhat guard us from falling into them again. And I think we have something to offer to you in gratitude for that vigilance. We have gathered knowledge in ways that only our status as a Great Clan permitted, with means that you did not have, and we have the most extensive libraries in the world. Surely you would benefit from our lore? Think about that. We do not wish to stray you from your path, and I am sure you would tread it better if we were to collaborate. Shiba Akaijin Phoenix Clan Shinseist Shugenja Ambassador of the Phoenix to the Brotherhood of Shinsei ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com * You received this message because you're subscribed to brotherhood * To send a message, mail brotherhood@flwyd.dhs.org To unsubscribe, * mail brotherhood-request@flwyd.dhs.org with a body of unsubscribe ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 11:51:56 GMT From: "Gael Lancelot" Subject: Re: [Brotherhood] Brotherhood/Phoenix Alliance >I must agree with MitsuMan. The Phoenix seek to gain enlightenment through >knowledge of only one ring. To understand all, you must experience it all. >I fear that if tourneys are won through FtH, then something very, very bad >is >going to happen. I see it as the corrupt version of enlightenment. The >playtesters must have realized that it was amazingly powerful. And I tend >to >go by the old adage: If it seems to good to be true, it probably is. If >something bad DOES happen to the Phoenix because of this, do we want to >ruin >our hard-won position as one of the top clans? I think not... > i have two things to say to that: First, I agree, Finding the Harmony is completely broken and ridiculously powerful. But I am not sure it is as "corrupt" as you say. Even if it is a bit "narrow-minded", it is a way for the other Clans to access Enlightenment, which is never bad. i mean, apart from Junzo Enlightenment :) The other thing is, as I say, if the Brotherhood helps the Phoenix, we might not fall into our previous mistakes. And I honestly cannot conceive a corrupt Brotherhood. it is even the only "group" (I dislike saying "Clan" when it not really is one: you are a Brotherhood, that is what makes you unique) that I cannot imagine "corrupt". the only ones that will always be good guys, no matter what. We were corrupt, the Lion is now, the Dragon almost was, but the Brotherhood will never be. >In another vein, why help the Phoenix at all? Are they REALLY the ones who >need our help? Right now, we should concentrate all our effort into helping >the Dragon. Now that Togashi hoshi is taking control, a strong bond >between >our two clans can be quite fortuitous. I mean, the Dragon DID give us the >Hoshi- the least we can do is help them out in the aftermath of Hitomi. > I think that the dragon now needs no help. They will mend their wounds the way they always did: by returning into the seclusion of their mountains. And I can but hope that the Asako will step in and display the fact that they are, after all, monks. >I do not claim to know much- all I can argue about is how I feel. And I do >not feel safe helping the Phoenix. > That may be true: We do not ourselves feel safe helping the Phoenix. You might help that. Would you return to the CandJ brotherhood, inactive and secluded? You have made a step into the world: now start doing what you were meant to. Help the world. >The Unnamed Monk * Monk Avenger * Kolat Shiba Akaijin Phoenix Clan Shinseist Shugenja Ambassador of the Phoenix to the Brotherhood of Shinsei ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com * You received this message because you're subscribed to brotherhood * To send a message, mail brotherhood@flwyd.dhs.org To unsubscribe, * mail brotherhood-request@flwyd.dhs.org with a body of unsubscribe ------------------------------ Date: 4 Feb 00 21:52:24 CST From: William Swaney Subject: Re: [RE: [Brotherhood] Brotherhood/Phoenix Alliance (long)] Brothers, MitsuMan speaks wisely. We should never turn our back on those who wish to find the true way. But we should never help those who attempt to find shortcuts to enlightenment. The Phoenix are such, searching for the easy path. We should do all we can to educate them but an alliance is in my opinion out of the question. As MM so aptly wrote, I cannot write better. I admit to lurking alot on this list, but then again most of us do:) However, I have played Monk for a very long time, since they were first released and I abhor an easy enlightenment win. None of us chose this path (I hope) because we thought it would be easy. Let us remember that. Shi Wei Ning, Exiled from Rokugan to Taiwan ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com. * You received this message because you're subscribed to brotherhood * To send a message, mail brotherhood@flwyd.dhs.org To unsubscribe, * mail brotherhood-request@flwyd.dhs.org with a body of unsubscribe ------------------------------ Date: 4 Feb 00 21:56:40 CST From: William Swaney Subject: Re: [Re: [Brotherhood] Brotherhood/Phoenix Alliance] Brothers, > i have two things to say to that: First, I agree, Finding the Harmony is > completely broken and ridiculously powerful. But I am not sure it is as > "corrupt" as you say. Even if it is a bit "narrow-minded", it is a way for > the other Clans to access Enlightenment, which is never bad. i mean, apart > from Junzo Enlightenment :) McEnlightenment is bad for all who seek the short-cut to the way. Actually, I don't think Junzp enlightement is all that bad. I mean, anyone can find it, it is not to be kept a secret. The true way cannot be corrupted. I am not against showing the Phoenix the true way... but in what way do the Phoenix want us to help? We might not be able to give what you want. Shi Wei Ning ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com. * You received this message because you're subscribed to brotherhood * To send a message, mail brotherhood@flwyd.dhs.org To unsubscribe, * mail brotherhood-request@flwyd.dhs.org with a body of unsubscribe ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 06:15:54 -0800 (PST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Brendon=20Bennetts?= Subject: Re: [Brotherhood] Brotherhood/Phoenix Alliance ok, MitsuMan was convincing as always, so how about this for size. we send to each clan an ambassador/advisor, to hang out on their lists and say "Hey! Why not try making an enlightenment deck using your clan, maybe put foreward a few sample deck, you know, guide them all on the path towards enlightenment. That's what we're here for right? What do you all think? Hoshi Brendon "Wisest is he who knows that he knows nothing" __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com * You received this message because you're subscribed to brotherhood * To send a message, mail brotherhood@flwyd.dhs.org To unsubscribe, * mail brotherhood-request@flwyd.dhs.org with a body of unsubscribe ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 10:43:49 AST From: "Repairman Jack" Subject: RE: [Brotherhood] Brotherhood/Phoenix Alliance (long) <> Note of course, a couple of things: * The ambassadors idea itself is unlikely to alter the story - simply being "present" on discussion lists is unlikely to alter the story. * Although everyone seems to be doing it these days, the "ambassadors" idea really belongs to the people on the Crab Clan list. They did it first, then everyone else announced their next great idea. Give 'em the credit they deserve. At LEAST use some other term. * Not all lists are "in character" - for instance, the Alliance list is not. Those lists which are not in character don't often appreciate other groups posting In Character and announcing what that group thinks they should do. Doesn't usually go over well. * Again, unless it directly affects deck construction and some of those decks place reliably, this is VERY unlikely to have any "actual" effect. Better to figure out a way to get all Brotherhood players to alter their OWN decks in the same way, reflecting whatever goals they wish to pursue [I hear "recover the original Tao" a lot]. Okay, so that's THREE points. A quick question, in case anyone knows. The Tao which was replaced by the False Tao was the New Tao. The Original Tao was studied for centuries, and much understood by at least a few within the Brotherhood. What prevents the use of the OLD Tao? How to reflect this return to the Original? Well, one could arrange for most Tao players to use the original stronghold. Possibly, said players [I dislike the term "movement"] could also include the item The Tao of Shinsei [unbows people when rings come into play]. A concerted effort to get a large number of the Brotherhood players to play this method, instead of the "quick and easy" New Stronghold Plus Finding The Harmony "Tao for Dummies" might get noticed - especially if the come close at or even win at a few tournies... Toritaka Genaru Falcon Clan Scout. Crab Clan Samurai. Yoritomo's Alliance. http://www.geocities.com/toshokanin/ andrew Aulenback YA++/CB+ S+ G+ R+ Y [P:M H 4 E(1)O EJ SJ-] Sc(56) C+ E++ ?M T D+ [o-ushi] U++ "A lone Mantis stood in the window; I do not know that any of the heroes of that day saw him, save myself. He was strong, but he bore the scars of many battles. His eye was patched, but his bow-string shone with crystal fire, and his arrow gleamed with the light of the sun itself. He leveled his bow to take the final shot ... but the Darkness was too deep, and he lowered his bow, cursing. And even now, I am not sure where his aim had rested: on the Moon, or upon my Master's heart...." - Toku, Champion of the Monkey, Fifth year of the Reign of Toturi I, IC1139 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com * You received this message because you're subscribed to brotherhood * To send a message, mail brotherhood@flwyd.dhs.org To unsubscribe, * mail brotherhood-request@flwyd.dhs.org with a body of unsubscribe ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 12:02:00 AST From: "Repairman Jack" Subject: Re: [Brotherhood] Brotherhood/Phoenix Alliance <> Beware only appearing to be "pressuring" them into something. Mind you, the idea of going to each "Clan" list to display a sample Enlightenment Deck for that Clan and seek commentary might work well. Most Clan players will likely view enlightenment decks as "trick" decks [unless they're playing Horde, Brotherhood, or Phoenix], 'though. Be fore-warned. Receptions might be chilly. OTOH, there's already a YA enlightenment deck [grins] the MDMA from a while back. Works well in multi-player, and took second at a tourney in open duel format [the MDMA is Jadex]. Toritaka Genaru Falcon Clan Scout. Crab Clan Samurai. Yoritomo's Alliance. http://www.geocities.com/toshokanin/ andrew Aulenback YA++/CB+ S+ G+ R+ Y [P:M H 4 E(1)O EJ SJ-] Sc(56) C+ E++ ?M T D+ [o-ushi] U++ "A lone Mantis stood in the window; I do not know that any of the heroes of that day saw him, save myself. He was strong, but he bore the scars of many battles. His eye was patched, but his bow-string shone with crystal fire, and his arrow gleamed with the light of the sun itself. He leveled his bow to take the final shot ... but the Darkness was too deep, and he lowered his bow, cursing. And even now, I am not sure where his aim had rested: on the Moon, or upon my Master's heart...." - Toku, Champion of the Monkey, Fifth year of the Reign of Toturi I, IC1139 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com * You received this message because you're subscribed to brotherhood * To send a message, mail brotherhood@flwyd.dhs.org To unsubscribe, * mail brotherhood-request@flwyd.dhs.org with a body of unsubscribe ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 17:29:41 GMT From: "Gael Lancelot" Subject: Re: [Re: [Brotherhood] Brotherhood/Phoenix Alliance] >McEnlightenment is bad for all who seek the short-cut to the way. >Actually, I >don't think Junzp enlightement is all that bad. I mean, anyone can find >it, >it is not to be kept a secret. The true way cannot be corrupted. > but we cannot all spend our time meditating. You have done serving the Empire, we are still struggling with that duty. If we can find the way to enlightenment, it is a path we should take, and if that is the only way to find it, then so be it. And I just say that Shadowlands is by definition corrupted, since we define corruption as the touch of the Shadowlands (amongst other things). >I am not against showing the Phoenix the true way... but in what way do the >Phoenix want us to help? We might not be able to give what you want. > >Shi Wei Ning What kind of help would we want from scholars and wise men like you? A spiritual aid, a guidance that would teach us how to resist the corruption that taunts us since the beginning of our Clan (hack, we started with a stronghold that gave the Shadowlands trait!). We could also but hope that your quest for peace would comprise helping to stop the murderous war the Mantis wage upon us. Shiba Akaijin Phoenix Clan Shinseist Shugenja Ambassador of the Phoenix to the Brotherhood of Shinsei ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com * You received this message because you're subscribed to brotherhood * To send a message, mail brotherhood@flwyd.dhs.org To unsubscribe, * mail brotherhood-request@flwyd.dhs.org with a body of unsubscribe ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 11:05:51 -0700 From: Trevor Stone Subject: Re: [Brotherhood] Brotherhood/Phoenix Alliance (long) In this message I shall try to address several recent points. Long, long ago, in a galaxy far, far away, "Repairman Jack" said: >* The ambassadors idea itself is unlikely to alter the story - simply being >"present" on discussion lists is unlikely to alter the story. > Could people please stop trying to influence the story by mailing lists? The lists all (mostly) want their respective clans to do well, not to be corrupt, etc. When the Hidden Emperor story arc began, we saw Hitomi as a woman, already psychologically demented, posessed by a mysterious god. She had a mission which few could understand, and was willing to do whatever it took to save the Empire. She invited Kokujin back to the Dragon Clan because that would help her plan. She recruited people and forced them into complete loyalty to her cause. She was a villain, but she had a hero's cause. The Honorable Dragon Movement stepped up, and decried that they didn't want Hitomi to be this character, they wanted their clan to be honorable. Hitomi was no longer a looney on a mission from god willing to do whatever was needed. Kokujin disappeared from the story, people just said "It's Hitomi, she's good, let her do what she wants." The Dragons got Honor and some helpful cards, the rest of us lost what could've been a very interesting story. The results of a storyline tournament are worked into the storyteller's plans, the storyteller still has control over the plot, but players have influence over the details. The listservs are trying to affect their clan's entire position in the plot, which (if successful) confuses the plot planned by the storyteller. The HDM has suffered a lot of player backlash; the Mantis attempts to help the Phoenix have been warped to an attack. Stories told democratically are almost doomed to failure. If a clan or individual has an idea for a story direction, they should present it. Neutrally. By considering how it affects all parties involved, and why it would make an interesting story. A story needs bad guys. If any clan proposes to take the mantle of bad guy, I give them utmost respect. >* Although everyone seems to be doing it these days, the "ambassadors" idea >really belongs to the people on the Crab Clan list. They did it first, then >everyone else announced their next great idea. Give 'em the credit they >deserve. At LEAST use some other term. > The ancient Greeks invented the word democracy. Doesn't mean we can't use it to describe what the American political system isn't. But ambassadors are for diplomacy. Diplomacy is the political and military maneuverings of Clans. Politics concern us not. If we cannot persuade people through arguments of what's right and true to work with us (we need to figure out what was going on at the Mountain of the Seven Thunders, for one), we should not engage in politics with them. We can work alone. If any Clan desires our assistance in discovering the ways of the world, we can happily give them advice. >* Again, unless it directly affects deck construction and some of those >decks place reliably, this is VERY unlikely to have any "actual" effect. >Better to figure out a way to get all Brotherhood players to alter their OWN >decks in the same way, reflecting whatever goals they wish to pursue [I hear >"recover the original Tao" a lot]. > Even if all the Monk decks included Agasha Gennai in them, I'd hope that doesn't automatically bring him into our clan. I'm sure the storytellers have other plans for lots of personalities. While the thought of including Recovering the True Tao in your decks is nice, it does nothing to help you win. There will be thousands and thousands of people playing in Strike at Midnight. The storytellers cannot incorporate everyone's story wishes. To influence the story, place high with a good deck, and do interesting things in the finals. Our Morikage featured shady dealings between a Scorpion and Corrupt Lion to get the Scorpion into the final. The Scorpion played a Ninja Theif during the game to steal the Unicorn sword. Although the Unicorn won the game, bribes were set to give the Scorpion the victory. The story, as sent to HQ, runs "Okura, enthralled with his feelings of power, refuses to meet the Unicorn in honorable combat. The Unicorn disregard him and head for where they believe the Emperor to be hid. But from the shadows steps Bayushi Aramoro, supposedly banned from the empire. He holds before him the Ancestral Sword of the Unicorn, somehow acquired as the Unicorn journeyed toward Morikage Castle. In exchange for the Sword, the Unicorn agree to give the Scorpion credit for finding the Emperor." These events are interesting and unique. These are the events that should have weight in the storyteller's consideration. A whole bunch of people including a useless card just expresses that they want something particular to happen. They can do that without playing in a tournament. > A quick question, in case anyone knows. The Tao which was replaced by >the False Tao was the New Tao. The Original Tao was studied for centuries, >and much understood by at least a few within the Brotherhood. What prevents >the use of the OLD Tao? > The New Tao and the False Tao are synonomous. Osugi, who we now know to be a Kolat agent, transcribed The New Tao and gave it to us. Once we realized it's nature, we labeled it The False Tao and began a search for the True Tao. But the True Tao is not the same as the old Tao, for we are in the Age of Man, and the Way is different, for the Kami have less influence, the Dragons are gone, etc. > How to reflect this return to the Original? Well, one could arrange for >most Tao players to use the original stronghold. Possibly, said players [I >dislike the term "movement"] could also include the item The Tao of Shinsei >[unbows people when rings come into play]. Don't use a card if it doesn't help you win. If you've got a deck which benefits from the Tao of Shinsei, use it. If not, build a deck without it. How much exsperience do you have with the old stronghold? In order to make an Enlightenment deck with it, you have to include more cards in your deck, making the combos harder to perform. The gold scheme bites, since you only have one holding that can produce 3G, and in order to get use out of your stronghold, you have to keep it unbowed (depriving you of more gold). Generally speaking, you need to include about as many search cards in the deck anyway, to get your combos set up. >A concerted effort to get a >large number of the Brotherhood players to play this method, instead of the >"quick and easy" New Stronghold Plus Finding The Harmony "Tao for Dummies" >might get noticed - especially if the come close at or even win at a few >tournies... > I find it hard to believe that a Brotherhood of Shinsei stronghold would do well enough to win a tourney. By all means, don't use Finding the Harmony, both out of politeness to other players and to represent the fact that you don't truly understand enlightenment by mere rhetoric and syllogism. A high quality Monk enlightenment deck can be played without Finding the Harmony or Kaede Sensei, though the later makes it work much more reliably. =-=-=-= Trevor Stone =-=-= a.k.a. Flwyd =-=-= tstone @ flwyd.dhs.org =-=-=-= Computer science, eclectic philosophy, games, wits, esotericism, weird hats. http://www.flwyd.dhs.org/ Thou bawdy bunched-backed death-token! Back up my hard drive? I haven't figured out how to put it in reverse yet. * You received this message because you're subscribed to brotherhood * To send a message, mail brotherhood@flwyd.dhs.org To unsubscribe, * mail brotherhood-request@flwyd.dhs.org with a body of unsubscribe ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 18:29:33 GMT From: "Gael Lancelot" Subject: Re: [Brotherhood] Brotherhood/Phoenix Alliance (long) >Could people please stop trying to influence the story by mailing lists? >The lists all (mostly) want their respective clans to do well, not to be >corrupt, etc. When the Hidden Emperor story arc began, we saw Hitomi as a >woman, already psychologically demented, posessed by a mysterious god. She >had a mission which few could understand, and was willing to do whatever it >took to save the Empire. She invited Kokujin back to the Dragon Clan >because >that would help her plan. She recruited people and forced them into >complete >loyalty to her cause. She was a villain, but she had a hero's cause. >The Honorable Dragon Movement stepped up, and decried that they didn't want >Hitomi to be this character, they wanted their clan to be honorable. >Hitomi was no longer a looney on a mission from god willing to do whatever >was >needed. Kokujin disappeared from the story, people just said "It's Hitomi, >she's good, let her do what she wants." The Dragons got Honor and some >helpful >cards, the rest of us lost what could've been a very interesting story. > >The results of a storyline tournament are worked into the storyteller's >plans, >the storyteller still has control over the plot, but players have influence >over the details. The listservs are trying to affect their clan's entire >position in the plot, which (if successful) confuses the plot planned by >the storyteller. The HDM has suffered a lot of player backlash; the Mantis >attempts to help the Phoenix have been warped to an attack. > >Stories told democratically are almost doomed to failure. If a clan or >individual has an idea for a story direction, they should present it. >Neutrally. By considering how it affects all parties involved, and why it >would make an interesting story. A story needs bad guys. If any clan >proposes >to take the mantle of bad guy, I give them utmost respect. > if I may... people still consider hitomi as a MAJOR loonie. She still is crazy as stiff, no matter what she does. You need bad guys? First, Shadowlands and Ninja have been some from the start. then, you wouldn't believe how many self-professed maho-tsukais you can find on the Phoenix list. i ma certain the unicorn and Mantis lists are full of out-of-the-closet kolats, and so on. But what is great in the game is people influencing the storyline. That's what makes L5R special. Mailing list participation is for fun, it can also be for major things as the HDM, which i quite approve, since they participated a lot and made the game alive, but MLs are mostly a way to coordinate our efforts about the storyline events. Cohesion is essential for being heard. >If any Clan desires our assistance in discovering the ways of the world, we >can happily give them advice. > thats is what I was saying. I do not ask for an alliance, but for help in enlightenment. i don't aim for major changes, like "all the Monks migrate north", but just for: "Hey, could we get an Asako Phoenix Monk created, or an Phoenix experienced version of a Monk?". I don't think it would be major, but it would help. >These events are interesting and unique. These are the events that should >have weight in the storyteller's consideration. A whole bunch of people >including a useless card just expresses that they want something particular >to happen. They can do that without playing in a tournament. > And how? Since you seem to say that ML action is no use or a bad thing? >The New Tao and the False Tao are synonomous. Osugi, who we now know to be >a Kolat agent To my great chagrin. :) , transcribed The New Tao and gave it to us. Once we realized >it's nature, we labeled it The False Tao and began a search for the True >Tao. >But the True Tao is not the same as the old Tao, for we are in the Age of >Man, >and the Way is different, for the Kami have less influence, the Dragons are >gone, etc. >I find it hard to believe that a Brotherhood of Shinsei stronghold would do >well enough to win a tourney. By all means, don't use Finding the Harmony, >both out of politeness to other players and to represent the fact that you >don't truly understand enlightenment by mere rhetoric and syllogism. A >high >quality Monk enlightenment deck can be played without Finding the Harmony >or Kaede Sensei, though the later makes it work much more reliably. Well, haven't got any of these anyway, so, i guess my brotherhood deck won't go far. >=-=-=-= Trevor Stone =-=-= a.k.a. Flwyd =-=-= tstone @ flwyd.dhs.org Rinsubanu Rejisu Sensei Restorateur de l'école Rinsubanu Joe the Oni's 24/24 Geisha Delivery Service Shiba Akaijin Phoenix Clan Shinseist Shugenja Ambassador of the Phoenix to the Brotherhood of Shinsei ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com * You received this message because you're subscribed to brotherhood * To send a message, mail brotherhood@flwyd.dhs.org To unsubscribe, * mail brotherhood-request@flwyd.dhs.org with a body of unsubscribe ------------------------------ End of Brotherhood Digest V1 #87 ******************************** * You received this message because you're subscribed to brotherhood-digest * To send a message, mail brotherhood@flwyd.dhs.org To unsubscribe, mail * brotherhood-digest-request@flwyd.dhs.org with a body of 'unsubscribe'